handcuffs or rope

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leider12000
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handcuffs or rope

Unread post by leider12000 »

Helllo all,

I have got a question when you doing self bondage is it better to do it with a good pair of handcuffs or tying your hands behind your back with rope?

P.S. If Rope is better could someone please tell me how to do it safe ;)
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gaggedutopia
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Re: handcuffs or rope

Unread post by gaggedutopia »

For me self-bondage safety means a compromise in security. I'm a fan of what I call the 'costly release'. This can be done a number of ways, but ultimately means that you can get yourself out at any time but at a cost. This cost could be (but not limited to) pain, destruction of property or humiliation.

For example, if you used handcuff keys a spare set could be left outside. If it were an emergency the fear of discovery diminishes in favor of the release. A favorite of mine is using nipple clamps to tether me somewhere. I can wait for my release method to engage, but if I need to get out quickly I can suffer the pain of pulling off the clamps to reach my spare set of keys.

Handcuffs and rope both have pros and cons. They are weighted about even in my book for safety. Handcuffs won't come off without serious tools that are hard to use while cuffed. Rope can tighten can cut off circulation making your hands useless to getting you free. In addition a knife is your only backup for rope which is very dangerous to use near your wrists obviously.

I usually got with a hybrid myself. I cut the linking chain from a pair of handcuffs and used a strong ziptie and sanded off any sharp edges. This does two things. It lets me control the distance between the cuffs. It also lets me use safety scissors or wire snips for a backup release in case the key fails or it drops out of reach.
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Stahlketten
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Re: handcuffs or rope

Unread post by Stahlketten »

I still can't figure out how someone can tie their own hands behind with just rope and have it be inescapable.

I personally prefer handcuffs unmodified except for better functioning. (I just adjusted a set of handcuffs on which the double lock could not be engaged on all the locking positions.) The zip tied handcuffs simply would not work for me psychologically. With a reasonable set of tools out in the garage, even a regular set of handcuffs isn't really hard to escape as long as I can get out to the garage. I actually had to do this with a set of handcuffs that jammed. Only one side jammed, but once I got into the garage, it took perhaps two minutes to get a hacksaw, clamp the cuff with my wrist still in it into a vise and then saw through the bow.

The only inescapable self bondage that I still do fairly regularly is locking to something with a combination lock that can not be seen until light from the sun comes into the room. All the other stuff is just a matter of leaving the keys in a place that I am not and still being able to get to them but with varying degrees of effort. Often, I just play with a set of handcuffs to see how they feel without any idea of being inescapably restrained.

I am biased. I prefer mechanical restraints to rope in most circumstances.
- Stahlketten.

boundCD
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Re: handcuffs or rope

Unread post by boundCD »

I prefer rope. Handcuffs have too much give and don't give me the same "helpless" feeling as rope.

What I do is I make a big loop using rope. After which, I use this big loop and loop it a few more times to create multiple smaller loops. Sounds a bit confusing. Think of it as the rubber band around girls' ponytails. Multiple loops. I put one wrist into the loop, then I bring my wrists behind me and squeeze my other hand in.

If properly adjusted, I can escape anytime I want, but yet it is tight enough so that I get the sense of helplessness. I prefer my wrists crossed (rather than palm to palm) when bound behind my back so that adds to the "tightness".

Some give-and-take is needed when practicing self-bondage.

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LockedInALocker
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Re: handcuffs or rope

Unread post by LockedInALocker »

     Seems to me that the best option for true inescapability is a combination of ropes and combination padlocks.
     With handcuffs, you always have the key available somewhere, even if you've arranged it to be hard to reach. (An ice-release that drops the key would make handcuffs truly inescapable for a time, though.) With rope, however you tie it, you can get out when you want to, even if you've made it hard to do so. (And you take the risk of it jamming and becoming truly inescapable. This once nearly happened to me with a hogtie, lying on my stomach in a few inches of water in the bath; and I was seriously scared for a few minutes until I finally worked the wrist loops open again. There was no risk of me drowning - just of me never getting out of the hogtie or out of the bath.)
     But if you use strong cord with loops in the ends (perhaps reinforced with some sort of superglue if you want to make sure the knots can't be untied), then you can use combination locks to fasten the cords any way you want. If you use timed light and dark, it will be inescapable for all practical purposes while it's dark - although, as a last resort, you can spend agonizing hours working the lock open in the dark.
     Besides, I have a bias in favour of things that lock, so this would be part of why I think it would be a good option. Options like just tying myself and being able to untie myself any time wouldn't work for me now, even though I used to do that; and the "costly release" idea doesn't do it for me, either - to my mind, you are not trapped at all, but merely have to pointlessly destroy a valuable object or suffer public exposure (or whatever the cost is) to escape. Being truly trapped for the time being is a very important part of it for me.

Regards, Michael.

Stahlketten
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Re: handcuffs or rope

Unread post by Stahlketten »

I still believe that handcuffs make a better toy than ropes. It is possible to be very secure and not be under any physical strain. The potential permanently inescapable issues are fairly easy to predict and hopefully avoid.
The compression of ropes isn't there, but along with that compression from ropes is a loss of circulation.

As for safety releases, a friend of mine would put handcuffs and leg irons on me and then leave the key in my locked car. At that point, as long as I was not locked to anything, I could either wait until dark to get the keys or do it in daylight if it was an emergency. The car was about 20-30 feet from the door of the apartment building. The hallways were short.

There actually were other reasons for doing this: There were a pair of keys for each pair of cuffs and there were lots of pairs of cuffs so lots of keys had to be secured away from the guest.

Spare keys in a car outside is quite a workable safety mechanism for self bondage. At that point you can use just about any timed release mechanism with the confidence that acute embarrassment is all you would suffer if it should fail.

With ropes, I can't see how you can tie your own hands behind your back in a secure manner and still have the ability to release yourself.

- Stahlketten.

1inmate
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Re: handcuffs or rope

Unread post by 1inmate »

I prefer handcuffs. I have hinged and chained.

I also prefer have my hands cuffed behind my back palms out. This presents some challenges in self bondage as the keyhole becomes a little more inaccessible. I fabricated a key with a longer handle to reach the keyhole to overcome this issue.

My ASP hinged cuffs have keyholes on both sides of the cuffs. This insures that there is a keyhole facing my hands when applied. ASP also offers chained cuffs which I believe have the same keyhole arrangement.

My chained cuffs do not have keyholes on both sides, s when I apply them, whether palms in or palms out, I have to make sure that the keyhole is facing my hands, not facing my arms, or up. I accidentally cuffed my hands behind my back one night with the keyhole facing away from my hands. Fortunately, like Stahlketten mentioned, I was able to get to the garage and use a grinder to cut through the bow and ultimate release.

Best of luck

Stahlketten
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Re: handcuffs or rope

Unread post by Stahlketten »

Hello 1Inmate,
I wasn't the one to use a grinder to get handcuffs off. Only one side (left) jammed on mine, so it was a very easy matter of getting a hacksaw and securing the stuck cuff in a vise before sawing away. It was VERY easy and somewhat surprising how soft the S&W steel bow was. This pair of handcuffs was a salvage with the two swivels welded together. After breaking one side, I tried to separate the two cuffs with a hacksaw and it would not "Bite" into the welded swivels. I used a carbide tool in a Dremel and was through it within about a minute or so.

What is your favourite brand and model of handcuffs?

- Stahlketten.

1inmate
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Re: handcuffs or rope

Unread post by 1inmate »

Sorry Stahlketten, I did not mean to infer that you used a grinder. My intent was to relate to your experience with my own in that I was also able to get to the garage and access some tools to secure a release.

As far as my favourite handcuffs, I like my ASP hinged. I will also probably buy a pair of ASP chained sometime in the future.

The hinged pair I cut off with the grinder was a cheap pair manufactured by Fury. I would stay away from that brand.

Stahlketten
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Re: handcuffs or rope

Unread post by Stahlketten »

Grinder, Hacksaw, it really doesn't make a difference what kind of emergency escape we used. It worked! That is all that is important. I just wanted to point out that it was another fellow who used the grinder, so there are at least three of us now that used a reasonably equipped shop as emergency escape.

BTW, It sometimes IS possible to get out of hinged handcuffs behind the back even with the keyholes facing up, but you do have to rotate your wrists so that the palms face together. Either way, you'll end up with lots of marks and bruises. The first couple escapes were done with a key shoved into a rubber hose so that there was a longer handle and then putting the hose between seat cushions so that the handcuffs could be maneuverd onto the key.

The brand I dislike the most is probably Uzi and then Fury. I don't have the ASP Hinged, but have a couple pairs of ASP Chain. I don't use them much because I prefer ones that are large enough to allow wrists to rotate easily. One of the pairs of ASP cuffs is getting cracks of the black plastic case by the lockset retainer opening. I have no idea why that is happening.

- Stahlketten.

Prisoner12
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Re: handcuffs or rope

Unread post by Prisoner12 »

I'm a handcuffs fan myself. My favorite are probably the ASP chained.

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Petrajane
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Re: handcuffs or rope

Unread post by Petrajane »

At the moment I'm struggling with any form of bondage that involves my hands being behind my back as I tore my shoulder muscles last year.

Normally I'd go for some sort of restraint but it handcuffs or a plastic tree tie, looped in on itself so it does a figure of eight as tight as possible, so it's a struggle to get my wrists through, or loose enough to get my hands through easily, then twist the tree tie by bringing one hand up and over the tree tie, then down again, causing the tree tie to tighten up completely over my wrists. I might even use a padlock to prevent any slippage in the loop of the tree tie.

However, yesterday I had strapped my ankles together with a tree tie, gagged myself then was looping bondage rope around my knees when I found I could loop the rope over my bad arm's wrist a couple of times, pull that tight so my hand was on my knee and with a bit of work, I was able to tie my other wrist in place on my other knee and with a bit of effort was nicely tied. Couldn't get comfortable as the rope dug into my legs under my knees if I tried to lay down. Even laying on my side was uncomfortable as I couldn't straighten up my legs or my arms.

My skirt rucked up and I had no way to cover anything as my hands were fastened to my knees.
hands2knees.jpg

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Gabriel
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Re: handcuffs or rope

Unread post by Gabriel »

i love handcuffs. There's a strong psychological effect when you feel the unforgiving steel around your wrists and know that no matter how much you struggle or claw at the handcuffs, they won't come off until the key drops. :twisted: They're easy to store and ridiculously easy to apply - they require no skill whatsoever. Another good thing about them is that once they're double-locked, they won't get tighter. The same cannot be said about rope: it might get looser and let you out if you struggle hard enough, but it can also tighten, cut off your circulation and cause a lot of other unpleasant stuff to happen. :shock:
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Stahlketten
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Re: handcuffs or rope

Unread post by Stahlketten »

Gabriel,
We don't seem to have agreement here because so far, of the two people that have stated a preference for a specific brand of handcuffs, the preference has been for "unforgiving plastic" instead of "unforgiving steel". ASP handcuffs have a steel frame (fairly thin) overmoulded with plastic!
:D
I like the psychological effects of being "bound in steel" also. They can be loose enough to wear for hours (or even days though I have never tried that) without any bad effects or even any serious marks if the jailer is careful. I have been kept in leg irons for just over a day though.....

As for preferences, I like nice rounded edges so the prisoner can pull as hard as s/he wants without being damaged. I also like them to be large size so that the opening is circular rather than oval when locked securely so that the prisoner can rotate them over wrist bones without scraping. I also like them to be fairly heavy, very precisely aligned and rigid when unlocked.

The ASP handcuffs have no sharp edges and are reasonably comfortable but are very light and seem a bit flimsy when unlocked. I also don't like their identical instead of mirrored design. Another thing that bothers me about them is that the spring under the pawl is very light. They can accidentally tightened too easily even by the friction of your wrist against the inside of the cuff.

- Stahlketten.

Stahlketten
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Re: handcuffs or rope

Unread post by Stahlketten »

Anyone ever use toys from the American Handcuff Company? Seems to me that their quality is excellent and their newer products have nice rounded edges.

- Stahlketten.

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steellover
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Re: handcuffs or rope

Unread post by steellover »

Given a choice between rope or handcuffs, I'll choose handcuffs every time. I love the cold, hard, unyielding sense that you're not going anywhere without the key that only steel cuffs can give. 8-) As for brand, the only ones I've used are Smith & Wesson; they're well made, affordable, and don't seem to do any damage if applied properly. I suspect that most of the other brands could make similar claims but I have no personal experience with them.

Stahlketten
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Re: handcuffs or rope

Unread post by Stahlketten »

I actually have a pretty good assortment of Smith & Wesson toys with quite a few duplicates:
Model 100 handcuffs
Model 1 oversized handcuffs
Model 1H hinged handcuffs
M&P handcuffs with the lever operated double lock
Model 104 high security handcuffs
Model 94 high security handcuffs
Model 110 large handcuffs (short chain leg irons)
Model 1900 leg irons
Model 1800 belly chain
I forget whether I have a set of Model 300 hinged handcuffs or not.

They make lots of different models as you can see. I don't like the shape of their leg irons because they are not round.
Perhaps I should spend a few hour in them to see if the odd shape makes sense. They appear to be reasonably well made but their double lock slot doesn't look good to me. The metal in them also seems to be a bit soft as I found out when I had to saw through a cuff when the lock jammed. This was not a fault in manufacture. The cuffs were probably assembled from salvage material and were a mismatched set. I have had a couple cuffs where the bow did not line up with the lock very well, but I have found that with just about every other brand as well. I have gotten pretty good at diagnosing the problem and adjusting them with a mallet and a vise.

The Model 1s get used a lot because they are a nice comfortable oversized handcuff. The M&P gets used sometimes when activating the double lock quickly without looking for a key or other tool is preferable. Ideally, I would like to see them make an oversized handcuff like the Model 1 but with the lever double lock as found on the M&P. A nice round set of leg irons would also be good.

- Stahlketten.

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steellover
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Re: handcuffs or rope

Unread post by steellover »

I have a pair of the model 1900 leg irons too. At first I didn't like them; the oval shape didn't feel comfortable to me. Then I tried puting them on with the teeth coming around from the back rather than from the front like I had been. It made all the difference in the world. Suddenly they were just as comfortable as the round ones I had been using. I'm not sure why this made such a difference but it did. Of course your mileage may vary; it may not make any difference at all to you. Still, it may be worth trying to put them on in different ways if you haven't already.

Stahlketten
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Re: handcuffs or rope

Unread post by Stahlketten »

Hello Steellover,

I tried out your method and you are definitely correct. Even after looking over the cuff and its shape, I can't figure out why reversing the cuff works, but it does. I still have a preference for other brands but this idea makes these leg irons more useable.

Thanks for the suggestion. I never would have thought of it.
- Stahlketten.

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steellover
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Re: handcuffs or rope

Unread post by steellover »

Glad it worked out for you. I'm also glad to know that I'm not the only one this works on even though I still don't know why. :-?

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