How much substance versus action you prefer?

[Alina]

I'm writing a new story and started thinking about how much people really want to spend time reading these. I don't know if any of you are familiar with my writings, but if you are, I have the tendency to write extremely long stories and release them very infrequently. Especially my Alice & Amanda series (to which I'm writing only the fourth part, even though it's been ongoing for over two years) tend to be very heavy in atmosphere and emotional content. I write them like I was writing any novel, not as quick feasts of fantasy and orgasms.

Right now I'm writing on the fifth page, but practically nothing has happened yet, except setting the scene and diving into the head of the main characters. I can't help but feel that maybe this is too much for stories like this? Should I concentrate more on the action and less on the emotion? Should I let the atmosphere be more vague?

Basically my question is, are people who read these kinds of stories willing to leap deeper into the world? Or should I just write short bursts of bondage dreamscenes for quick satisfaction?

[Darkraptor1]

I generally go by the film method...tell a story as quickly and efficently as possible with as little fluff as possible.  After reading numerous film scripts, I can tell you that if a story doesn't get my attention within the first ten to twenty pages, I will stop reading it and go on to something else.  It is IMPERATIVE that you grab your reader's attention as soon as possible when you do a story, otherwise you risk loosing them, even more so with sex stories.  If you've gone five pages and nothing has happened yet, you may want to consider cutting out or condensing the plot to speed things up.Generally, as a rule, I've found that I'm much more willing to read something through from beginning to end if it's fairly short.  If it's a long story and the writing is good, I scroll down until I find the interesting stuff, so to speak.  Personally, I'm into the action when it comes to these kind of stories.  I go in to read stuff that gets me excited.  I don't go in for emotional relationships and deep characters. I just want the action.  Perhaps this can say it better...if you go into a movie about giant transforming robots who fight each other, you expect to see giant transforming robots who fight each other, not the love story of two teenagers who are trying to develop their relationship.  Whenever they're on screen, you keep wishing for the robots to show up again.Darkraptor12009-10-12 22:02:23

[cagedsgt]

I have to agree that if it isn't grabbing a little in the start I tend to find other things to read. But at the same time I do prefer the longer novels. Face it the novels I buy usually are the ones in series where the same main characters grow with your reading. Yes I would prefer a little more stage then most short stories give. But at the same time, I grab a good short story when time is short os both ways have an appeal to me. And one thing that I have found out over the years is that not everyone will agree even on how good a story is or isn't. For one it is the greatest and another it just isn't my cup of tea. Please I have read your alice and amanda series, and you are giving an area that not very many writers offer. so continue, and please get the new chapters up quicker. HAHA

[Master Stephen]

I have to agree, too.  It's a sex story.  You know how you fast forward over all of the plot stuff in a porn movie?That.

[pleasewrap]

I'll go the exact opposite direction - well, sort of.It's your story to tell.  Tell it the way you want.  If that means five pages of set-up, that means five pages of set-up.  If that means none, then it means none.  Whether or not the story grabs you depends on how interesting the story you're telling is and how well you tell it, not how long it takes to get to the action.Personally, I'm probably known for writing mostly about character and very little about sex.  While the stories I've written contain bondage and sex, I don't describe the acts intimately or graphically.  Yet my stories are pretty well received because they give enough that the reader's imagination can picture the scene based on what I've set up and imagine it as they like.  But you'll get to know the characters, get to know what they're feeling, and enough to create an interesting image.  And those stories tend to be longer, often multi-part stories.  I do get some comments about how there needed to be more sex or more graphic description sometimes, but I blow 'em off - that's not my story telling style and I'm not going to go there.Tell it how it makes sense for you to tell it.  If it's interesting, folks will stick with it.  But that means the intro needs to be interesting in and of itself or they'll never reach the payoff.If you want movie equivalents, 2001 and Alien were both extremely slow to build to the "good part," but both are classics.  Contrast that with action films like Top Gun or Die Hard.  Both have a place, both work, but both have enough to keep you interested.

[roboman]

 I've liked the  Alice & Amanda  stories so far. I would say first off that a huge amount depends of why you are writing. If it's just a story you want to write and no one else ever reads it through, that's fine, you did what you want. If you are writing just for money you want as many people clamoring to read what you write as possible and you have to target them. I'm guessing your target is more in the middle along the lines of creating an erotic tail that catches a reasonable size audience in the shared experience. For the porn reader you probably need to get right to it, for the erotic story reader you probably still need stuff that draws them in very early on, but it probably doesn't have to be the erotic stuff right off.

[Alina]

Thank you for your responses so far. Naturally as we are all different personalities, we write and read different styles of stories. I don't get much of anything out of simple porn video transcriptions that some stories seem to be, but I respect that some people prefer those.

Personally, I feel that strong characters make more interesting action. If the characters are there, the action has meaning, it's not just wanking material, it's an opening to a world. The action fills a purpose and brings out an emotional arc that I find much more interesting and meaningful than sex. That's why I like to set up the stories, since I can make references on things that perhaps have happened, perhaps not. I can make a subtle reference and that might open the imagination of all sorts of wonderful things that could be going on in the character's lives. Sometimes those even lead to new stories if the lead is strong enough.

To pull it off successfully, you obviously need to be a strong writer. I'm not going to comment on whether I qualify or not, I leave that to the reader. Personally I'm also not keen on giving too specific advice on writing these since what I, or any other person, finds compelling is just one option. They might go on to write stories that please me, but that isn't the point of the process in my opinion. I'd also like to draw a pretty strong line between erotic stories and porn videos.

I'm also pleased to hear that some of you have read my Alice & Amanda stories, and am pleased to report that I've submitted the fourth part, which I was writing when I started the topic. It's going to require a bit of a lead of faith from both the reader and myself as the writer. But it has some pretty intense things going on as well. And it's looooong.

Perhaps I'll balance things out by writing a one-off story that is just girly sex in bondage. I just need to find an angle to it that would interest me. Sex itself I find completely uninteresting. I know I'm probably overthinking the writing since I don't have any misplaced ideas on what people are looking for in these stories. But I see no reason to not put in the same amount of thought to these than to any other story I'm writing.

[rubberwolf]

Substance. A lot of stories that I have read can be a bit premature.  The lead charactor is thinly described, with a BIG victim sign hanging over their head.  Wham, bam, thank you marm.  The authors suffer from a sever case of premature publication. Other stories can go on for a bit.  The trick is to keep the suspense going.  Hitch once said that he liked to show his audience the knife, tell them what he was going to do with it, and then keep his promise by using it.  You do not therefore, need to reach straight for the crotch, but spend a good few pages building atmosphere and charactor development. One of my recent stories recieved mixed reviews.  In the Joys of Spring most of the story is charactor development and plot.  At the end of the story, she was raped and left imprisoned in a Jibbet cage, in the middle of a field.  Now if you are into hard bondage and public humiliation, this is great stuff.  But if this isn't to your tastes, then you will not find it that interesting.  One person stated that it was a great story, but not very wankable.  Each to their own. In an episode of Dr Who, the Bard was described as a Wordsmith.  Not a bad analogy that.  As a writer, you forge words to create, not just a story, but a world.  Words have power and they can move people.  You therefore owe it to your readers to do the best that you can.  If that means 5 - 10 pages of plot development, that's fine.  It might be an idea to show them the mearest hint of a knife, or a bit of leg, occasionally, to keep those readers with control issues sated, but it is your story. Similar questions have been posted before.  My stock answer has been: Charge the Cannons,Damn the Torpedoes,Send More Japs,Publish and Be Damned. In short, write the story that you want to write.  If you are not happy with what you have written, why do you expect anybody else t be.  Write YOUR story. :)  

[TutTutTut]

Without action it is not erotica, but without substance it is just an assemblage of words and not a story.  That said, if the rope does not come out for the first time until chapter 6 there just might be an issue, though PD James managed to write some damn good murder mysteries that did not have a murder till the second half of the book.Ultimately, follow Rubberwolf's advise and write your story.

[amwbound]

I tend to write about the people involved in the story before I jump into the bondage details because I thing it titillates the reader to get a sense of who these characters are.  Also, I tend to identify with the characters as I write.  What should this person look like?, what would she wear?, what would I be feeling in this situation?, is this situation plausible?, etc.  So there is a fair amount of down time before the salacious details begin to come out.   Some critic or writer said that you can tell if you will like a novel by reading the first sentence.  I try to write something there that makes the story attractive to a reader. This is not great literature; it is, as my brother would say, jack-off material.  There is no need to be pretentious about it or make it into something it isn't.  I just have fun with it and write as if I could imagine myself involved

[FuzzyP]

I've recently been contemplating this very subject.  Having read and enjoyed so many of the stories on the site I felt encouraged to try my hand at writing a story.  As it happened, the one I'm working on starts with a bit of back story, which I think is interesting and I hope others do as well.  It sets the tone and provides character development that, I think, helps the reader place himself in the story.  At least that's how I see it.  I know I like a little back story before getting to the meat of a tale. That being said, who doesn't enjoy the occasional fast romp? Those above who say write what you like are surely right.  All the greatest kinky sex stories (you know, by the big names: Twain, Dickens, Tolstoy) come from the heart - not necessarily to cater to a particular audience.

[Tyerrup]

[quote="Alina"]I'm writing a new story and started thinking about how much people really want to spend time reading these. I don't know if any of you are familiar with my writings, Well, without having read everyone else's responses, I have to say that for me, "It Depends"  What I'd prefer is perhaps to have the first installment be about setting the scene, groundwork(how'd they get there) and character development.  AND, if that pulls me in, I am usually hooked.  BUT, the second half of the first installment should have some action.  And al the rest should be almost all action, like 90%.  Even when introducing a new character. One example is the "Adventures of Terri and Jennifer."   I first read one of those back in the early 90's and was hooked.  But back then it was hard to find anymore. It took me years to find them all.  But it was so hot, that I was hooked from the beginning.  The other thing I will say is that TYPOS really take me out of the story.   Esp today with spell-check there's really no reason to have typos of any kind.Also, I prefer stories for the most part that are grounded in reality.  Meaning, no space aliens or men with 18" cocks, or women that have EEE sized breasts.  But also, the bondage, etc. needs to be something "routine" taken to the next level.    Like perhaps longer-term bondage, or someone bound in public in plain sight but hidden in some creative way.  The story should be done in a way that if daring enough,  or if I found the right partner, I could duplicate the activities.  So in other words, I don't like stories so much that revolve around the super-rich or a lot of dungeon toys.  Hmm, well I guess I should clarify that last point.  There ARE stories that are improbable, but still sexy-perhaps some guy "kidnapping" a sexy flight attendant, storing her in the back of the plane, naked and tormenting/using her.   And noone knows and it turns out that she totally gets off on it, or it is explained at the end that she actually knows the guy, but it's not revealed until the end.  I DO so love a hot kidnapping story, esp when there's a "happy" ending-Either the kidnap victim finds love with her captor, or the kidnapping was fake.  And always a good ploy is two hot girls kidnapped, thrown together, and exploring each other's bodies while bound.   And later we find out that one of the two engineered the whole thing to get close to her friend/co-worker.  I DID read a story a while ago about something along those lines except it happens AT work.  Turns out one girl is kinky and does things in the bathroom at work thinking noone knows.  Until one day when her boss captures her late one night.  Anyway, unless you are really trying to sell your stories, I'd simply write what you enjoy, but perhaps mix it up-Do the occasional, intense, short-story.  Perhaps even write a long one, then write it again and remove anything that slows the story down.  Then post both versions for feedback.  The point is, writing is a life-long pursuit and you'll never appeal to everyone.  And you shouldn't try. Good Luck!

[Tyerrup]

Oh, I forgot to mention something I used to do when I would entertain myself by writing kinky stories-Just go about your day as normal.  But every time you meet a hot young lady(or good-looking young man, depending) try to get their name, and memorize a physical description.  THEN, while sitting at the computer, look through your notes, pick 2-3 of those people and plug them into a story.  Perhaps change their names, but retain the same first initial.  Like  Patty becomes Penelope, etc.  But that way it will be a little more real to you.   Not to mention you can mentally undress all those objects of your desire and do things to them in the story you wouldn't dare even discuss in person.

[Tyerrup]

[quote="amwbound"]I tend to write about the people involved in the story before I jump into the bondage details because I thing it titillates the reader to get a sense of who these characters are.  Also, I tend to identify with the characters as I write.  What should this person look like?, what would she wear?, what would I be feeling in this situation?, is this situation plausible?, etc.  So there is a fair amount of down time before the salacious details begin to come out.   Some critic or writer said that you can tell if you will like a novel by reading the first sentence.  I try to write something there that makes the story attractive to a reader. This is not great literature; it is, as my brother would say, jack-off material.  There is no need to be pretentious about it or make it into something it isn't.  I just have fun with it and write as if I could imagine myself involved[/quote]Wow, so are you married?    A woman who not only likes bondage, but likes it enough to write about it?  AND the last time she was on was my birthday!  I think it's a sign!  LOL!